Curse

Red-Tide · Dec 03, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Thanks Anet. While applaud you for repairing bugs rapidly, I really think you should undo the effects of said bugs.

Heres my complaint.

Lightbringer rank AFK farm

Those of us who didn't know about the AFK LB point farming exploit before the update have obtained our LB ranks in legit fashion. But the fallout of this is those of us who didn't exploit cant even get a group for DoA because we don't have high enough LB rank. All of them (ok most) got it through the exploit and now those of who don't have r6 or better are treated like red headed step child's by other players in DoA cause our rank is n00b.

I don't really like the prospect of grinding out till rank 7 LB in the vortex. More grind in the anti-grind game...

Knightsaber Sith · Dec 03, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Technically I think it's against the license agreement to use any exploit. I remember some people got banned for exploiting chest runs which resulted in chests needing keys.

Frankly there's no way to take back the ranks some people unfairly gained; and it wouldn't make much sense either to put the exploit back in the game. Just grin and bear it til they're ready to put the "easy" way of gaining the ranks in the game.

reetkever · Dec 03, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

This will never happen, cause there are people who grinded their rank 9 together. What, you wanna screw them as well?

Same goes for farming btw, people who farmed are rich now, and people who were too late can't afford anything now. So, you wanna reset the whole economy?

This is what's eliteness in the game. Even if it's obtained by exploits, it doesn't matter, in the end, it's all about the results.

That's how it is, if A-net resets the ranks, they'll screw even more people who earned it. Just like the screwed farmers and lots of people's builds. I don't think they'll do it right after the big update, and 3 months later, lots of people already have a high rank, so...

Kai Nui · Dec 03, 2006, 04:04 PM // 16:04

It's a bad situation, but not a good solution. I think a good way to solve this is to put it back in, but from LB6+ you don't get points for summoned or resed creatures. maybe LB6 is too high, maybe 5 would be good, I don't know.

Avarre · Dec 03, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red-Tide

I don't really like the prospect of grinding out till rank 7 LB in the vortex. More grind in the anti-grind game...

Once again, GW is not grindless. GW requires no grind to proceed or to play, but the game has grind-goals for those players that wish to go after them.

You don't need an LB rank at all.

Knightsaber Sith · Dec 03, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

No argument will ever convince Anet to reinstate an exploit. Not even a somewhat nerfed exploit.....

Ole Man Bourbon · Dec 03, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

LB grind is a little tough, particularly for multiple characters.

Shanaeri Rynale · Dec 03, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Resposted from another thread..

Ok i'll play Devil's Advocate. I enjoy seeing a nice discussion once in a while

Why was this an exploit and the AFK 9 rings, the lutgardis FF run(people stayed put, let a runner get the points and then got the reward), or letting a monk rez a mob in order to get sunspear rank 9(afterall AN did'nt intend people to get to r9 just yet) not?

Is something an exploit only if AN change something so it no longer works?

The only reason I can think people might think it was an exploit was that it did'nt require players to actually do anything after a certain point in time and not continuously. But then again so did 9 rings and the FF run(walk outside, wait for running, get reward). LB rank does give an in game bonus, but then so does lucky/unlucky/Steward of xxx etc, in that it contributes to KoBD. So I dunno..

The Lutgardis FF run gave 100 gold and 2000XP i think. So was'nt 9 rings and the FF run more of an exploit since it affected the economy?

The exploits I do remember for sure were the doppleganger one, where a bug let you get 50K XP over and over again and the 12/8 GvG teams. Both of which were so obviously bugs.

But I really dunno on this one, I note in the closed thread that someone had sought clarification from AN on it. I wonder what came back.

Spike · Dec 03, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

I'm sure there is an way to take back ranks and I'm sure it would not be that hard to do either. So once again the exploiters win and the people who just play the game get the shaft. Thanks Anet.

Red-Tide · Dec 03, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

My thoughts exactly Spike.

Myria · Dec 03, 2006, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

No argument will ever convince Anet to reinstate an exploit. Not even a somewhat nerfed exploit.....

If I remember correctly, Ms. Gray asked on this and other boards if players believed this to be an exploit or not, indicating some confusion on the matter from Anet's side. Its status as an 'exploit' is ex post facto at best, even moreso than is commonly the case in GW.

(Edit : Shanaeri Rynale beat me to it, and put it better besides)

*Darcy* · Dec 03, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

The only way to take away the exploit benefits is to roll back the server. As the bug was probably there from day one (just undiscovered), that would mean we all would have to start over.

I don't think that would make the rest of the game population very happy.

Shanaeri Rynale · Dec 03, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Another devils advocate question. Was it even a bug. A bug has unintended results, maybe getting LB points from spawned mobs was intended as you did'nt get XP or drops from spawned mobs.

Maybe AFK and rank 9 sunspear farming caused AN to review the intentions behind those titles and change them. Thats not a bug, just a change to how something works. I suspect this is what happend.

Cf prot bond, other 'nerfs' etc etc.

broodijzer · Dec 03, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You don't need an LB rank at all.

It gives a huge gameplay advantage over the ones with a low rank, as opposed to fow armor, rare skins, titles etc.

Ate of DK · Dec 03, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Who would have thought that someone finds a way to farm LB-points in such a way? Do you think Arenanet knows it before it even is found to be effective?
I don't think so. It's creative thinking of the one who found it and offcourse Arenanet can't solve the problem right away. It has to be spread first among players before the can notice... or do you think someone is behind a desktop all day acting like Big Brother who watches you.

There are Bugs such as these and there will be again in future. It's always been like that in Guildwars.

Avarre · Dec 03, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by broodijzer

It gives a huge gameplay advantage over the ones with a low rank, as opposed to fow armor, rare skins, titles etc.

I completed the game using henchmen and heroes - which do not gain the benefits of LB rank. The gameplay advantage in most areas is negligible; the zones are balanced towards the player having an LB rank of 0. Any ranks you have obtained are just a bonus.

Xenrath · Dec 03, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

Resposted from another thread..

Why was this an exploit and the AFK 9 rings, the lutgardis FF run(people stayed put, let a runner get the points and then got the reward), or letting a monk rez a mob in order to get sunspear rank 9(afterall AN did'nt intend people to get to r9 just yet) not?

It was an exploit because it was an abusing method to gain something which has a direct benefit/effect on gameplay. 9 rings AFK'ing is completely different as it has no bearing or impact on anything at all and was just for fun. I'd consider the mob resurrect thing for Sunspear Ranks as an unintentional bug which people exploited (I think that's been fixed now).

Being able to just go afk and then come back and end up with something which has a bearing on gameplay (possibly over someone else who maybe didn't AFK it/didn't farm it at all) is definately exploiting. AFK'ing for a pointless/zero impact title such as Lucky is just well.. pointless.

Shanaeri Rynale · Dec 03, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Still playing devils advocate

9 Rings does give an in game effect. It counts towards Kobd and effects the economy(gold sink). After all who is a pug going to choose, someone with a kobd or not?

Lutgardis FF runs, where 7 plays stay still and an 8th runs the quest and all 8 get the reward has an in game effect also. Not only does it contribute towards a title but it gives XP and money. Loads of alliances were doing the FF run at the peak of factions.

These two methods are still in the game and have not been changed

As Avarre said, it's not needed, in some cases it's a hinderance by taking up a skill on a bar. It's title a bit of fun

It's not a bug, just players finding a tactic that does'nt fit in with the way AN want it played at or after that point in time.

Consider prot bond, I don't think AN testers even thought of it being used in a low health way to give a player invincibility in a high end area. When players started to use it, they changed it as their vision for the UW was not as a solo place but as a team play environment. Then players decided to use Prot Spirit instead, neccesitating the introduction of dying nightmares..

Should AN take away the ecto/cash from the prot bonders?

I've tried to think of it in any other way, other than a tactic or build but I can't reconcile any other way that is'nt consistant with past history.

It's always going to be AN vs inventive players. Like an arms race if you like. EoE was nerfed, partly because players were using it to affect AB's and Urgoz, the AI was changed, partly to stop a lot of solo farm builds.

AFK LB points and Rezzing monks to get R9 Sunspear is just the same, just another chapter in the GW players constant contest to be one step ahead of the devs. That's not an exploit or a bug, just game players nature.

My personal view is I don't know if it was a bug, exploit or a lame but inventive tactic. Since it's closed off now I guess it's a moot point

Antheus · Dec 03, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Asking for R6 or more is relying on fact that gaze will be helpful.

That was proven to not be the case. Unless you have prepared team players, you will wipe, hard and fast. And then, margonites will laugh at your R8.

Gaze helps. But only as topping, not as the core of the build.

The title damage reduction and increase are mostly irrelevant. 8 damage reduction from 308 won't save you. And since nukers and/or trappers are primary damage dealers there, the +40 damage bonus doesn't help you either.

CyberNigma · Dec 03, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

This is the rason many people didn't think it was an exploit (a bannable offense):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarkii

The only way currently known to rise past Rank 8 is to enter an area just before you reach Rank 8, take the blessing, and clear mobs while leaving their monks. And move on to the next mob. By the time you get back to the first place, the monks would have ressed the entire team, and you can rinse and repeat. Unless there's another way not commonly known, you have to be joking that this was 'intended'

Obviously that's not the "intended" way to get rank, you're absolutely correct. That method was a clever gamer figuring out the angles and coming up with a creative solution to what the majority saw as an insoluable conundrum. Now, it's Sunday, so I cannot ask a designer, "Say, did you predict this would happen?" But in a general sense, I think there are three possibilities: (1) Sometimes, gamers find ways to solve things that the designers don't foresee. (2) Sometimes gamers find ways to work around a complex issue in creative ways that the designers include for the especially dedicated player. (Sort of like having "hidden Mickeys" in Disney movies. Cool for those who care to take the time to find them and not of harm to those who do not.) And admittedly, (3) sometimes gamers find exploits that need to be closed.

I'd be interested in hearing if you guys think that this work-around falls in to the third category. In my opinion, I don't feel there is any harm in players having devised this work around, and since others will be able to acquire the rank in the not-too-distant future, I don't see where this requires us to amend the game to prevent it. Do you feel differently?

Lastly, a lot of things were included in The Manuscripts, including content that foreshadows Campaign 4. Do you feel we "owed" that content, too, with release of Nightfall? There is only one box release, and obviously the manual is the one and only shot we have to reach the players with a printed publication prior to release of the next campaign. The update is being worked on now, and will be coming within the next few months. If you anticipated a different delivery schedule, then I apologize for your disappointment.

That was in relation to the Sunspear ranks. It is very similar to the way many people go max title on Lightbringer. If one is not an exploit (ANet didn't even know whether it was an exploit) then you would have to really stretch to call the other one an exploit. In-game benefits aside, you have almost the same exact strategy for both. I am not max lightbringer, nowhere near, but I don't blame those that did of using an exploit.

I all comes down to the village ***** being amused that someone found a work-around to a piece of their game that was not complete. In order to stave off the people complainging about an incomplete game she (in essence) told everyone that they just weren't as 'clever' as those that figured this out. Well, I guess that clever (albeit stupid) remark has come back around now. They had a year and still couldn't complete a game that was still smaller that the first one they released. It is showing in various places. It is a good game, but those that want max LB and don't already have it will just have to wait until it has been completed and fully released.

If they didn't realize early on it was an exploit, then how could the people that used it. Also, you wouldn't necessarily have the 'exploits' as a problem if they would've just released the game in its entirety. It's all about perception. It doesn't matter how they explain it, it only matters how the customers see it.

For their credit, the Domain of Anguish is really nice and challenging. It's definitely something to be enjoyed. It's just too bad that they had to taint it by not having it ready with release.